🎧 The Fragile Glue: Mark Zaid on Whistleblowers, Retaliation, and the Rule of Law

Former CIA officer Jim Lawler and former FBI senior executive Lauren C. Anderson host Mark Zaid, a renowned national security attorney who has represented whistleblowers, been personally targeted by a presidential clearance revocation, and fought for government transparency for nearly three decades.

They discuss the real difference between a whistleblower and a leaker (using Edward Snowden as a cautionary example), the erosion of democratic norms under the second Trump administration, and why the rule of law has become “water soluble.”

Zaid predicts that the loss of seasoned diplomats, intelligence officers, and FBI agents will take a generation to rebuild, and explains why, despite everything, the judiciary remains his beacon of hope. The conversation also covers FOIA in the digital age, his representation of clients across the political spectrum, and practical advice for law students entering national security law.

Mark S. Zaid is a nationally recognized Washington, D.C. attorney specializing in national security, First Amendment, government accountability, and whistleblower representation. He founded the James Madison Project in 1998 and co‑founded Whistleblower Aid in 2017. He represented the whistleblower whose complaint triggered the first impeachment of President Trump, sued Libya on behalf of Pan Am 103 victims, and taught security clearance law as an adjunct professor at Johns Hopkins University. You can follow his work through the James Madison Project (www.jamesmadisonproject.org) and on X (formerly Twitter) at @MarkSZaidEsq.

View the episode transcript and watch the episode below:

Founded in 2016, The Steady State is a nonprofit 501(c)(4) organization of more than 400 former senior national security professionals. Our membership includes former officials from the CIA, FBI, Department of State, Department of Defense, and Department of Homeland Security. Drawing on deep expertise across national security disciplines, including intelligence, diplomacy, military affairs, and law, we advocate for constitutional democracy, the rule of law, and the preservation of America’s national security institutions.