John Sipher (00:00.248)
Talk about that. All right, let’s get going here. So, as those of you who follow the steady state are aware, we’re endorsing candidates for the 2026 election. We’re endorsing people who embody the values of the national security professionals who make up the steady state. To that end, today we’re speaking with Fred Wellman, who’s running in Missouri’s second congressional district. Fred has taken a little bit unusual path to politics. He grew up in Missouri, graduated from West Point.
Fred Wellman (00:01.314)
Yeah.
Woohoo!
John Sipher (00:29.936)
And spent more than two decades in the Army, flying scout helicopters in Desert Storm and serving three tours in Iraq. Along the way, he earned a master’s degree from Harvard’s Kennedy School and eventually retired as a lieutenant colonel. After the military, he funded a business devoted to veterans and military families, helped run a field hospital in New York during COVID, worked with the Lincoln Project, and became a prominent voice on democracy and politics through his own podcast. Now he’s trying to do something really different, winning elected office himself. So Fred
Welcome to the Steady States channel.
Fred Wellman (01:00.59)
Good to see you again, John. It’s w it’s great to be back. I’m a big fan of Steady State and course you, sir.
John Sipher (01:04.608)
Yeah, I don’t know about that. Well, so this is fun. Like you’ve always sought to serve, clearly, you know, just reading what I just read for and and you’ve overcome some rough stuff in your life. So good for you taking for taking this on. So what are you learning about running for office? Is it fun? Is it interesting? Just give me a sense of what it’s like.
Fred Wellman (01:06.296)
Ha ha ha.
Fred Wellman (01:22.104)
You know, it’s funny. I i it I I’m I’m having fun. You know, there’s there’s a saying in politics that happy campaigns are winning campaigns. And my when I decided to run, my fiance said something very telling. She said, you know, the good thing is you actually like people. So I you know, I like people and I and I like helping. And you said I’ve always been that guy who ran the DeSide on the Guns. You know, when I was actually, you I went to West Point instead of Missoula, like all my family did. I I was actually a reservist on nine eleven and I volunteered to go back in the regular army.
you know, when I friend called to say she was going to New York to run a COVID field hospital staffed by special op veterans, I they needed an admin guy. I said, Hey, I could do that. So I went, you know, I went to New York. And and I, you know, I came here, I helped with our Afghan refugees. The local, the local organization, International Institute was being overwhelmed by donations. So I can fix that. You know, so so it’s kind of my thing, which is hey, if there’s a moment to make a difference, I can do it. And so it’s been really good to actually reach out to folks, talk to folks, literally listen to people.
About their struggles and understand what we’re dealing with and and and so many people just want to be heard. And that’s my thing. You know, I I like to I like to talk to folks, hear what their challenges are, and put that into use. So I’ve been very, very lucky to talk to so many folks and we got some kind of an interesting movement going here. I’m really proud of we built. But overall, I it’s I you know, you always expect the worst. There’s there’s been a couple of days I’ve woke up a little grumpy, I’m not gonna lie, but overall it’s been a real positive experience.
John Sipher (02:42.595)
Well, that may be a good thing to come out of the Trump experience is i it’s bringing different people into politics and getting people to sort of step up and so good for you. I’m glad you did it. So let’s talk a little bit about you for a while before then we talk a little bit about the campaign, just to give a sense for our listeners. So you grew up in Missouri, right? That’s where you’re running and you spent much of your there you go. and then much of your adult life you were been elsewhere serving in the army. So what did growing up in Kirkwood give you that stayed with you through West Point, war, Washington and everything?
Fred Wellman (02:45.639)
Yeah. Yeah.
Fred Wellman (02:55.373)
All right.
I sure did, Kirkwood, write the district. Write the district.
Fred Wellman (03:06.679)
Yeah. Ugh.
That’s been a bumpy road. you know, it was it was fat you know, Kirkwood’s a wonderful little town right in the middle of district. it’s known as being a little bit Mayberry-esque, if you will. my dad was a World War II Marine. so we already kind of grew up with that military legacy. It turns out our family goes all the way back to my God, 1657, serving in the military in some form. And so that was sort of our our service legacy in the family. And we grew up, you know, he was the first one in his c family to go to college. All four of his kids went to college, and my three siblings went to University of Missouri.
I rebelled and went to West Point. and you know, we all it was that kind of and he’s also a man of New England. He’s from Lynn Mass, working class town in Massachusetts. And he was always a believer, like if you wanted something, you have work for it. when I was thirteen and wanted my really cool members only jacket, like all the cool kids in the eighties had, he said, Great, get to work. So I started mowing lawns, you know, and when I wanted to buy a cameraman, great, get to work. I started working as a busboy at the local country club. I I joke often that I got into a country club to the
Employee entrance and not the member entrance. And then I did became a lifeguard. You it’s always been that kind of a thing. I’ve worked since I was 17, or really 14. And so for me, this is sort of an extension of that. as I went into the army, you know, we I graduated from West Point. I I I managed to get aviation, flew scout helicopters in Desert Storm, you know, a tough fight. And we actually lost two of our men. I married my college sweetheart, who unfortunately then lost her life in a car accident when she was seven and a half months pregnant.
nineteen ninety four, which was very difficult. The army took good care of me and and and moved me to Hawaii where I settled into a new command and met my second wife and had four kids with her. And so it’s it is sort of the thread. you know, nine eleven I gotten out as a reservist, just in two thousand in Atlanta, Georgia. Got mobilized on nine eleven, you know, and you know gave up my life and ended up deciding to volunteer, went back into active army and 100 First Airborne, Iraq won, you know
Fred Wellman (05:00.685)
Got made a PAO, Rack 2, you know, and then Rack Three. And then, you know, I got lucky. I just, it’s sort of funny. I was very fortunate to have leaders and bosses like David Petraeus, who saw something in this dumb kid from Missouri and said, Hey, you you’ve got some talent. Let’s make you my spokesman, or hey, you should get your graduate degree and going to the Harvard County School and getting my graduate degree between combat tours. And so when I retired in 2010 out of the Pentagon, I saw this need. after being out for about a year, I saw how
The veterans’ unemployment was high, veterans suicide rate was high. I mean, we were really struggling. And I saw so many good people wanting to help. And in 2010, you had that was the the first days of projects you know, like Team Red, White, and Blue and Wounded Warrior Project, and so many modern organizations we’ve gotten comfortable with after 16 years. And I thought maybe I could form a company that would help these good companies and these nonprofits and work together. And that was ScoutComs. I had a good run there, 10 years of we had over a hundred clients. We helped thousands of veterans.
Corporations like the Home Depot and the Home Depot Foundation and GE and USA, but nonprofits like Winter Warrior Project and Vets for Warriors and the Elizabeth Dole Foundation. I mean, honestly, it was such a a wonderful experience for me to have that. And then, you know, it was always a small business, always a struggle to make ends meet. And it was never easy, but we did it, you know, and then and then COVID hit. And a dear friend of mine said, Hey, let’s go to New York. I went to New York and as I mentioned earlier, and ended up being the administrative chiefs of staff for a hospital.
Have I ever run a hospital? No. You know, how hard could it be? It turns out hard. six weeks of that, you know. But I came back and realized my firm wasn’t gonna make it. We we had very we had nonprofit clients, over wo overwhelmingly nonprofit clients who were struggling, if you remember. So I closed it and this guy I’d met in the army named Steve Schmidt said, come work for us. So I ended up with the Lincoln Project and Yeah. Go ahead, go. All right, next. All right, go. All right, there we go. I suck at this job.
John Sipher (06:21.817)
Ha ha.
John Sipher (06:39.043)
All right, all right, all right, all right. Hold on. You’re taking away all my questions here because you’re going through your own
No, no you’re you’re good. let’s go back a little bit so to that West Point in the Army. So like what did that teach you that helped you in the subsequent career and the run for Congress? And were there any bad things? I mean, you went you did great stuff ’cause you served, but you also went through the forever wars, which didn’t always go to plan. So wha what do you take from that period?
Fred Wellman (06:50.615)
Please.
Fred Wellman (06:58.547)
yeah.
Fred Wellman (07:07.649)
Wow, the layers there. first of all, leaders eat last. It was such an important early lesson I learned a c as a cadet, right? That that there was a the the service mentality, which is you took care of your troops, you took care of your folks. It also taught me leadership in the sense of something I talk about in the campaign trail a lot is the mantle of leadership, which should feel like a burden. People talk about the burden of leadership, right? And and and you should feel the weight. I mean, I remember as a young man, my very first leadership position as a plane leader in Korea.
Knowing I remember arriving and seeing our aircraft on the ramp there and these scout helicopters that were behind me and thinking, all right, these guys are relying on me, yeah, to train them and to make sure their aircraft are maintained and all. And so I always had this feeling on my shoulders of weight of leadership. When I lost two men in Desert Storm, I carried that burden to this day. I mean I mean, I had to deal with PTSD and some of the decisions I made, survivors’ guilt was a major issue.
So I think that’s one of the biggest things I pulled from the army is the understanding that leadership comes with a weight to it. And you should should understand that and decisions you make can lead to things you had no foreseen, you know, you hadn’t foreseen at all. And I kind of that’s carried me through here to my run for Congress where, you know, you have to realize that when you’re in Congress, you’re one of four and thirty-five, but when you make a vote, you’re voting to send people to war, or you’re voting to cut off their health care, or you’re voting in this case to like recently to cut off their health, their their food benefits.
I I just think it you should feel that, that you should be aware that you’ve made a decision for thousands, if not millions, of people, and you should feel that weight. And so for me, I think far and away the biggest thing I learned is that leadership should come with a weight to it that you respect, and that should be on your mind. You you owe it to the people you lead to have that on your mind. That’s far and away that as I’ve run for office, the thing that’s crystallized the most for me is that thread that goes through from those earliest days. and
John Sipher (08:56.301)
And it seems to me now that so many of these people in Congress have just given up the leadership mantle. They don’t even use the authorities that they have or the responsibility they’ve been given. It’s just we’ll do whatever the leader tells us to.
Fred Wellman (09:00.877)
Yeah.
Fred Wellman (09:07.435)
Right, we’ll do whatever. And they they they they cast off votes, they don’t even think twice about it. they don’t defend the votes. In our case, my opponent, Ann Wagner, voted for the big billionaire, but she’s actually voted with Trump on absolutely everything. She’s never got against Trump. And so it if it infuriates me that you don’t have the moral courage and the spine to go against someone who your your own leadership. And that’s the hardest thing, right? You and I learned in as in your security. Right. The harder right over the easier wrong is something we were taught as young cadets.
John Sipher (09:29.359)
Why do why do you want the job if you’re just gonna like they could have a machine do that?
Fred Wellman (09:37.196)
We are taught that you may have to go against your leadership. That that we were literally taught how to say, This isn’t illegal order, I won’t follow it. And and I think that’s one of the hard I mean I I do think one of the hardest decisions I ever made as a officer at every rank, all the way up to working for three star and four star generals, was saying, General, you’re wrong. I mean you know, I mean it it it it does take and it made people laugh, but it does take a certain sense of courage to be Lieutenant Colonel standing before a three star saying, This is an incredibly bad idea.
And this is how it’s gonna go for you when you do it, you know, and having the moral courage to say no. And and I had bosses that were mad at me for a long time. I I joke that one out of three bosses loved me and thank God they were named Petraeus. And you know, that’s why I made Lieutenant Colonel. But you do it does take a certain moral spine to say, No, I believe you’re wrong and this is gonna get people killed, or I believe this is gonna hurt you in front of the American people or hurt the American people. and so that is something probably far and away that’s led me into this service as a potential member of Congress is
The understanding that I serve the American people first and foremost, and I owe them answers. and it’s not political even. It’s just understanding that. And I think in the end, sacrifice comes with the price too. I mean, I I you know, one of the things they like to beat me up is like I’ve I’ve had hard financial times. On nine eleven, I did lose my job as a consultant. My wife lost her job as a flight attendant. Three months later, we were broke, like a lot of Americans. you know, when I had my business and nine p the pandemic hit.
We lost all our business, you know, I couldn’t keep it going. And and what I had to do was what every American does. I had to pick myself up and build myself back and get back to work. You don’t get to quit. so that resilience that you’ve gotten in those years, I got it in Ranger School. I talk about a lot. I mean, the lessons of Ranger School. Going to Ranger School as as an aviator is like, all right, well, you know, you know, you got it when when when the position of leadership you lead, you know. So yeah, I think my military career has really been helpful for me, good and bad.
to teach me the things I need to know. And it’s funny you say bad lessons, I want to go to those, but I like we said, our friends in the military aren’t perfect. you know.
John Sipher (11:34.416)
Yeah. Well, let me talk a little bit like so you you you have had tough times with business, it sounds like, and and financial things, and which is the people you’re gonna lead do as well, or so that’s understandable. But you mentioned earlier about about losing your your wife, having personal tragedy. Was killed in a car accident while pregnant, right? Whew. I don’t want to ask you to revisit the details of that, but like w how does that impact your view of your responsibilities, other people’s struggles, what happened with the rest of your life?
Fred Wellman (11:43.735)
Yeah. Yeah.
Fred Wellman (11:52.353)
Yeah, seven and a half months wider. Yeah, it was tough.
Fred Wellman (12:04.277)
That’s a great question. And it does that is probably one of the greatest life lessons. and negative too, by the way. So I was in a training meeting with a new boss, and and Jennifer was running errands down in Nashville, came back, pulled out in traffic, got T-boned. We lost her and the baby almost immediately. the care with which I was given by the United States Army in many was great, but my own immediate boss didn’t. you know, he was like, Well, I gotta, you know, it’s great you, you know, you had that loss, but get back to work. he had tried he actually tried to have me fired. He actually went to our
John Sipher (12:30.264)
Oof.
Fred Wellman (12:33.153)
Higher headquarters, because I wasn’t performing and yeah, he made topped out a colonel. But that in a lot of ways showed me empathetic leadership does matter. That that the mission accomplishing the mission should not be at the expense of humans, right? You know, accomplishing your mission should not mean that you override the emotions and the emotional needs, the mental health needs of your troops. And in this case, I was. I was treated very poorly, but I was very blessed that the larger army
John Sipher (12:33.21)
my God. Let’s hope he’s not still in position of influence.
Fred Wellman (13:01.887)
Stepped in and said, No, we’re gonna take care of this young man. And I was moved to Hawaii to start my life entirely over again. So so there’s a good and bad lesson to be learned there. But I did learn a lot that said, Hey, look, you have to lead with empathy. It’s okay to have a heart that even in the United States Army, even in combat as bullets are flying, you have to have a heart and understanding of the emotional and physical toll you take this business that business takes on you. I think it’s the same way now. I’ve taken that
I think that leadership empathy is such an important aspect. We don’t talk about it enough in the military or in the national security world is no, you you do have to understand that we’re still a people business and people people hurt, people get hurt, people have flaws. you can’t just simply say power through it. you will lose people. It leads right to today with the Lincoln, right? I mean y you you can’t just dismiss peop human needs when we have suffering because in the end.
It’s people first mission. You know, I mean mission first, people sec whatever, but people always, right? Mission first, people always, right? And and then that is really true. And and I did see so many leaders in the army that just dismissed that second part. Well, I mean, the the the people and you just get the mission. People always need to do the mission. Like, well, sometimes people can’t. And you have to make very hard decisions to either take them off the battlefield for a moment, replace them, or or help them to survive and get through it. And I saw that the worst and best of both those things in my service.
John Sipher (13:53.431)
Ha ha.
John Sipher (14:18.627)
When I first got to know you, I think I think it was when you were executive director at Lincoln Project and we did some podcasts together and I worked a little bit on Lincoln Project as well. And that organization was and is extremely effective politically, but it was also surrounded by a little controversy. And then of course, if you’re running as a Democrat now, there’s this sort of view that these Republicans that are now running as Democrats, what does that mean? Does the right wing of the party, the center of the party, the progressives? So from your time there, tell me a little bit about that organization.
Fred Wellman (14:33.112)
Yeah.
Fred Wellman (14:36.632)
Ha ha.
Yeah, yeah.
John Sipher (14:47.407)
What it did for you, what it got wrong, what it got right, which what how is that affecting your run now?
Fred Wellman (14:52.494)
man, so much lessons learned there. You know, when I was hired out, I was a Democrat and I was brought on to specifically reach out to veterans and military service members and family members who had voted for Donald Trump in 2016. And I as I framed it, create a permission structure for them to vote for Joe Biden in 2020. My goal was to prove that Donald Trump wasn’t should not continue as commander-in-chief and that Joe Biden would be able to replace him and and do a better job as far as his perspective. That included pointing out that Joe Biden, for example, was the first blue star father. In other words,
He Joe Biden was the first president Eisenhower to send a kid to war. You know, Joe Biden understood what it meant to wait till nine o’clock to pass so the casualty assistant officers couldn’t knock on the door after that. You know, Joe Biden had that experience of being afraid of the guys in uniforms showing up your door. And and I because we all, you know, our spouses and our family members experienced that. So I I was able to frame that in that way. And so we were we were very effective in those days. I did, you know, I think we worked together on that. I created my council, I did a lot of work. I was very proud of the work we did.
And I learned a lot about how Republican leaders think. Obviously, the co-founders were all former Republicans or Republicans at the time. I had been a Republican in the military, but kind of, you know, I’ve I drifted away after I left the military. And I was a Democrat tried and true by the time I joined. And I learned about a lot of ways how they think and how they act. I mean, some of the lessons I learned on my on my podcast, my excuse my my campaign now is Republicans figured out long time ago that your great policies don’t matter if you don’t win elections. That win elections and then pass policies, not
have to have the perfect policy and it that appeases every aspect of your electorate before you get elected. Like they’ve they figured out a long time ago, let’s just get people elected, then we’ll hammer out the rest of it. they also do dumb things. Like unfortunately I think there’s a mindset within the Republican Party of never apologize, never admit default default, never, never, never, you know, even say you made a mistake. And that’s in many ways what led to the debacle that was the crisis that I ended up in. You I I after January 6th, I want to do more.
our executive director position had opened up. I at I r applied for it. I was selected. My very first day as executive was the day that the big crisis broke out with John Weaver. And I’m like, well, this is a fine, how do you do your first day the job? And then it just got worse over several weeks as accusations around f financial malfeasance occurred and other mistakes were highlighted. And and I think in a lot of ways I fell back on my military train those days. At one, I’ve never run away from a crisis. when the when a representative of the board asked me to to to take a look at things, see if I could stabilize it.
Fred Wellman (17:13.25)
and take care of our people. The first thing I thought of was the people because we had 15, 12, 15 staff members, most of them women, who were very worried, who were very scared for their own even safety at the time. So I made immediate measures to one, make our staff feel like their jobs were secure and that they were safe, that they’re they would not be in a position of jeopardy within the organization. That included taking all of our contractors and making them employees. That included giving them a full package of health insurance.
First act I did as executive director after the crisis was release everyone from their non-disclosure agreements. So if they wanted to talk publicly about their experiences, they could. I I wanted to stop the air of secrecy or that there was being a suppression of the truth. the one thing I’ve learned in my life is truth is the truth answers a lot of things. You know, and and and if you just tell the truth and you open it, it was good. So I think for a lot of ways, I learned a lot about that’s helped me in this campaign now to understand how I need to do.
John Sipher (17:48.558)
Good.
John Sipher (17:59.417)
Yeah.
Fred Wellman (18:09.73)
But in the end, you it’s funny, I do get, you’re a Republican. Like, no, I’m not. I s I’m really not a Republican. I am I I learned a lot working for him.
John Sipher (18:17.753)
Do you just to go to your th i because of that, is there any pushback bet from the progressive side of the party for you? Like how is that working inside the Democrats now?
Fred Wellman (18:26.958)
Hey, look, I understand completely. I I’m not gonna fault anybody for being suspicious or wondering what my true nature is. You know, in in our in this time in twenty twenty-six, people wonder, and I I can only what I’ve said all along is here’s where I stand, here are my policies, here’s who I am. I’m an open book, and and let my let my actions speak for my words. And I think I’ve been very clear about where I stand on issues, you know, the very many issues that affect our electorate, the the humanitarian issues, the LGBT issues, the overseas issues, and and so
I’ve been very open and tell people, no, I’m a Democrat, and I just I I promise you know, I just be be me. the wonderful thing about this election cycle is people are really looking for just genuine people. They’re looking for somebody who stands for something, right? Authenticity. And I don’t know any other way. It was funny when we first started running a a a an elected official, I was mentoring or mentored me. He was like, you know, the big thing’s just being yourself. I’m like, brother, I know how else to be. And you know, I’m not I don’t know tell you, I’m sixty years old.
John Sipher (19:07.759)
Authenticity.
John Sipher (19:19.279)
Maybe they’ll teach you when you get into Congress or have a course.
Fred Wellman (19:22.474)
Yeah, I know. I’m I’m yeah, I’m 60 years old. I’ve I’ve been in, you know, therapy for PTSD for eight years. You know, I mean, I don’t know how else to be, you know. Matter of fact, I had to the one thing I had to change was I don’t drop as many F-bombs anymore. but I I am me. I I I I’m very comfortable with who I am. I made a commitment when I started the campaign that I would run as me. And I say that as I’m just gonna be, I gotta be me. And this can change you. I mean, it is it is a heady experience when you’re
John Sipher (19:34.189)
That’s good.
Fred Wellman (19:48.195)
Going to the grocery store and people are talking to you and people are taking pictures with you everywhere you go. You got an aide following you around. It would be very easy. And I’ve seen it happen to others where this all goes to your head and you forget where your feet are grounded. So I made a commitment to myself and my family and my friends that I would do this campaign as me, that I would fight at all costs to keep it from going to my head. And if I win as me, then that’s I I good. I did a good campaign and people saw what they wanted to see.
If I lose, well, good. Then I’ll still have my family, my fiance, my friends, and we’ll still have our Thursday beers. And that’s good too. And and and what would be worse is I change who I am, I lose the race, and I’ve lost my friends and family in the in the process, and I’ve got nothing to show for it. And so I’m too old, I’m too old and too grumpy and too salty, you know? And so far, so good. You know, we won the primary and now we’re moving out smartly, you know.
John Sipher (20:31.565)
No, to care, yeah. Good for you.
All right, well let’s talk a little bit about the campaign. So you’re asking voters to replace someone who’s represented the district for quite a while now, more than a decade. So this And I don’t tell me a little bit about Anne Wagner. What has she done well for the district? What is what is it you’re running against that you think you can do better?
Fred Wellman (20:45.24)
Yeah.
Fred Wellman (20:54.274)
Wow. So Representative Van Wagner, 13 years in office. before that she was the ambassador to Luxembourg for George Bush. she was a re co-chair of the Republican National Committee. And she’s she’s got a long history of political ac acting. She got elected in twenty, you know, took office in twenty thirteen. Has never held a town hall since her first term in 13 years. She has quadrupled her net worth from five to five point six million dollars when she took office to now an estimated twenty-six million dollars in her portfolio.
John Sipher (21:22.393)
While in Congress?
Fred Wellman (21:23.682)
While in Congress, yeah. Now her husband’s a lobbyist. You know, they were they were wealthy before, but it is concerning when you sit on the Financial Services Committee and you’ve increased your net worth that much. she made three point six million dollars estimate in the stock market the month the tariffs kicked in, in one month. I mean the median income of our district’s about ninety-nine thousand to a hundred and three thousand dollars. that’s a significant difference between the people you represent and you. she has cut herself off in many ways from the people she represents. She
She’s very careful when she presents herself. She doesn’t do town hall. She doesn’t even do open, like just way going to a town fair, you know, going to a country fair. She won’t do that, you know, where she could possibly ex. No. And that’s the worst part. You know, Representative Wagner. Right. And that and that’s where, you know, as I’ve talked to her colleagues in the house and others who’ve known her, their frustration is that she is actually doesn’t believe any of this. That she has told them to their face that,
John Sipher (21:59.61)
Well, is she a natural MAGA person or is she just doing it because she has to? Yeah. That that cowardliness, why run if you’re afraid of the world?
Fred Wellman (22:18.411)
You know, I agree with you on issues and then votes against them. she made it she had condemned Donald Trump. When when the when the grabbing by the you know genitals tape came out, she condemned Donald Trump. She put out a statement saying she was pulling her endorsement of him. When he won the nomination, she flipped and has never wavered once from his side in ten years. That kind of moral what going right back to we talked at the beginning of the show is that that spine. You have to have so what do you believe in? When she won on two she ran on two big things: abortion.
And sex trafficking. Because she her story is that obviously she’s a har she’s a she’s a a devout Catholic, God bless her. She served in Luxembourg, which she frames as the capital of sex trafficking, which was news to me. I I don’t know to say, but I know it’s the capital of tax havens. However, I’ll leave that to others to decide. However, if your sex sex trafficking is your your your your biggest issue, then how can you sit by your side against you know Epstein files and by Donald Trump, who literally admitted that tape.
John Sipher (23:01.379)
Been to Luxembourg, I don’t know.
Fred Wellman (23:15.607)
That he has sexually assaulted women, that was that was shot found by a jury of his peers to have sexually assaulted a woman. over and over, Representative Van Wagner has had a chance to do the right thing morally and has chosen the cowardly version. Her silence is what makes me so angry and makes so many of her constituents angry. That silence continues to, when they reach out for help, she doesn’t give it. She doesn’t believe in bringing money home. Believe it or not, she doesn’t believe in pork belly spending, she calls it. So no money has come home unless it was inadvertently sent there by someone else.
Again and again, we see that she chooses to simply be quiet and fly under the radar. And that’s how she’s gotten re-elected, I think, for all these times, six times is by quietly running with the R next to her name, dropping hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars on her opponents’ heads. She is funded by the financial services industry. Over half her money in her campaign account came from the corporate PACs of the financial services industry, which she oversees on the financial services committee. She’s the chairwoman of the subcommittee.
On capital markets, the SEC and the stock exchange are under her purview, and she’s not launched a single investigation of Donald Trump’s insider trading or anyone’s insider trading. Forget Jared Kushner or anyone else. She has remained silent and she’s constantly saying, well, my job is to ensure that Main Street investors have confidence in the market. I’m sorry, ma’am. We don’t have confidence in a market where the president of the United States can openly trade on the knowledge that he has as the president of the United States, and you choose silence. So, in a lot of ways,
What we’re seeing is a movement against her here in the district because she simply doesn’t exist. They call her absent Anne. They call you know and and it’s because that. I we I thought she’d retire. I don’t $26 million. She’s a grandma, she’s she’s served her country. I I don’t I don’t I have all the respect for someone who goes into public service. But my version of public service and her version of public service are very, very different versions. My idea is that it’s funny, one of the things people say to me all the time is, Are you gonna have town halls for it? I’m like,
John Sipher (24:50.767)
Seems like a good time for her to leave and just go be on some boards and a act in fancy society if she wants to.
Fred Wellman (25:12.599)
Frankly, isn’t that the minimum? I mean, shouldn’t you be able to grab me? I I I live here in the neighborhood. You you should be I I was walking in one of my favorite parks in the district the other day, and a gentleman on an older gentleman on his bike pulled up goes, you’re Fred Wellman. I said, I am. And he goes, Yeah, I saw your car, you know, because I got magnets in my car because I’m a canot. And he does a U-turn, he goes, Can I talk to you Medicare? I’m like, I’m walking. You get so literally this elderly gentleman in his 70s is toddled along next to me on his bike, bl bending my ear about the donut hole in the Medicare. And I that’s that’s my job. When I signed up to run for Congress.
When I sign up to be a member of Congress, that is my job. That I understand that part of that job means when I’m just trying to walk to clear my head that people are gonna wanna talk to me. And it’s my duty to talk to them, right? And you know.
John Sipher (25:53.754)
Let’s let’s do that then. Let’s move let’s move to your district a little bit. Like tell me a little bit about the district. So you’re walking around, you’re talking to people. What do you hear from people when you knock on doors? Anything surprise you? Like what tell me a little bit about the district and what you think it needs and what you’ve learned.
Fred Wellman (25:57.069)
Let’s do it.
Fred Wellman (26:01.695)
I am.
Fred Wellman (26:06.577)
it’s an amazing district. It’s a beautiful district. I grew up in this district. This is where I grew up. It’s West St. Louis County, South St. Louis County. it’s it’s Franklin County, a beautiful rural district. it’s it’s now today, Gasconade and Washington and Crawford and Jefferson. I mean, it’s funny. When I moved back here, I started eating all the St. Louis foods, Ted Drew’s, Emo’s pizza. People who are from St. Louis know what I’m talking about.
t toasted raviolis, you know, and I gained a ton of weight, John, I’m not gonna lie. And my dog’s like, look, you gotta get your butt out there and walk and the only thing I could do with fake leg fake knees and a boat broken foot from the army is there you look at you.
John Sipher (26:40.271)
Yeah, I’m getting a second fake I I’m getting a sec I have one fake knee, I’m getting a second one in a couple of weeks.
Fred Wellman (26:45.421)
it’s great, man. Best thing, best thing I ever made. Do it as a young man. And I walk. He said, I said, What do you I’m doc? I can’t swim. I can’t run. He goes, go walk. I I walked. So I ended up hiking in the district by accident. You know, I have all trails and and it was funny. I and it’s a beautiful place with wonderful, nice people. Politics doesn’t come up in daily conversation. Contrary to anybody who thinks outside the district, it’s all red. You’re all no, it’s it’s people just trying to live their lives and make ends meet. And so what I’ve heard over and over is a frustration with their ability to do that.
John Sipher (26:49.763)
Me too.
John Sipher (26:56.504)
Yeah.
Fred Wellman (27:13.035)
When I number one thing I’ve heard by far that has driven my campaign from day one is I’m worried about my kids. And that comes in many forms. When I spoke to the state rep that represents my old hometown, I don’t live there now, I live further west. he said, far and away, Fred, the number one thing I hear at my doors, and I’ve heard too since is my kids can’t afford to live in Kirkwood. Or in the rural part, my kids can’t afford to leave Pacific, right? That the opportunities for the next generation that we have raised are not the same as the ones we were raised with.
And for that reason, so much and this goes from every economic level, every di you know, dynamic of of of ethnicity and religion. Everyone has the same fears that they understand that our next generations do not have the knee the the ability they do. I dropped off signs of this seven year old couple like maybe in the eighties and I showed up ’cause I my poor staff. I I I can’t be bored. So I’ll just go, Hey, do we have any signs of me delivering? Like, okay. You know, Saturday morning I’ll just get in my car and drill, you know, and
It’s really powerful when a candidate shows up without a staff and a team. You know what I mean? It’s just like people are surprised, right? And so I draw I knock on these people’s door. I say, Hey, you ordered a sign. They’re like, You’re him. They’re in their pajamas. Like, my God, you’re him. my god, I’m him. Yes, yeah. Like, well, and they started talking to me, man. And they said, you know, the thing is, Fred, what you resonated with us is your focus on the affordability crisis and and everything. Like, we have adult children. We have four adult children, and we’re on pensions, you know, social security and pensions, and we’re still supporting them.
John Sipher (28:15.887)
Yeah. Good.
John Sipher (28:23.279)
Yeah.
Fred Wellman (28:40.001)
Like our our our oldest son just had a break job, five hundred bucks he did not have. And it resonates with them. They understand that the kids we are raising today, that things have gotten so expensive, they can’t do it on their own. And so for me, when we have conversations, we put aside the political side, I say, look, put aside my party. It’s the costs, it’s the corruption, it’s the chaos. And all those things are tying into uncertainty for businesses, uncertainty for farmers.
rising prices, gas, who knows what’s gonna be today. My daughter owns a small business in Virginia. She she makes bath and body products. She gets citric acid from guess where? Canada. Guess what just happened? Her price is just doubled. And because Donald Trump got grumpy and you know had a bad night, stayed up too late. And that chaos is affecting
Dally life. So I I the great thing about you you’ll appreciate this. You know I look like a certain kind of guy. We look military and you know, national security. You know, I joke that if I put on my veteran my 101st airborne hat and tuck my polo shirt in, everybody thinks I’m a MAGA guy. You know. But I have I’m I have access to spaces as a veteran here that I might not otherwise as a Democrat, if you will. And I talked to my veteran. And my favorite one is I was talking to a guy early on, he said
He goes, what do you you what do you do? Well, I’m running for Congress against Anne White. He goes, my God, she sucks. You know, she never answers phone calls. She doesn’t do anything. She’s never brought money home. I’ve tried to get a hold of her for a year, you know. And he goes, You’re you’re a Republican. And I said, No, I’m not. I’m a Democrat. man, I can’t vote for a Democrat. I said, Look, man, you and I agree that Anne sucks, that she has to go, that that it’s time for 13 years is too long. She’s she’s w c na you know, feathered her nest with millions of dollars. We agree she has to go. So look, all I’m saying is when you go to that booth in November.
Just vote for me that one time. Just don’t tell anybody, you know, just vote for the Democrat. And if I suck at the job, you can fire me in two years. And he laughs, big belly laugh. He goes, that’s a really good point. But again and again, it’s just we have to present a reasonable alternative that says, look, here’s what I stand for. And it’s not these things you’re worried about. It’s not the things being told you on Fox News. It’s the fact that your small business is struggling. It’s the fact that they made up a lie about these lazy 27-year-old men getting free health care when the truth is.
Fred Wellman (30:47.985)
it’s a brewery owner out in Sullivan, Missouri. And the two owners are of Marine and a Navy veteran. And the gentleman the the Marine’s wife runs the fr the restaurant and and she gets Medicaid. Okay, she’s on Missouri Net, our our local Medicaid. Is she lazy? She has four kids and she’s running a business by her you know, I mean, so this disconnect between what our elected officials are saying about us and what they think who they think we are and who we really are, which is just people want to break for once.
John Sipher (31:17.207)
They’re just trying to keep people angry ’cause anger works, right? So people get all worked up about trans kids in sports. None of no one’s ever seen it, but they’re worked up about it. Like so yeah.
Fred Wellman (31:17.567)
is so real. Right. Right.
Kids in sports.
Literally what when I when I when I won the nomination, the very first thing Anne Wagner put out wasn’t about the affordability crisis, wasn’t about h taxes, it wasn’t about it wasn’t about Iran, it was Fred Wellman is open border men and women sports. You know, I’m like, what the hell you talking about? None of those things are true. commie, I was a socialist, of course, gotta be a socialist. I’m not a socialist, I was a CEO of a company, I was a veteran, I was in the army for 22 years, I’m the opposite of what a socialist is.
John Sipher (31:43.215)
Here it goes.
Fred Wellman (31:55.362)
I’m a capitalist. I’m just against criminals. I’m against corruption. You know, I mean, I mean, it’s like if that makes me a socialist, I don’t I’m not the one that bought into thirty one companies. That’s Donald Trump. And so it is.
John Sipher (32:04.523)
It’s just lame like using communism, it’s like what is this, the nineteen fifty’s like they don’t even know what communism is and it’s it’s just so let me ask you one quick question. so yeah, the things you’re talking about seem to make great sense. You’re in the center of the country, there are economic issues or things that are affecting all of us, whether it’s red or blue. Since the study say, you know, a lot of national security veterans are from the does anything in the national security area resonate? Is it is there anything that’s a foreign policy, a military thing that matters to people?
Fred Wellman (32:10.123)
Now it’s the big scare word.
Fred Wellman (32:31.981)
Well, that’s what’s interesting is it does well when you take those three C’s, those three C’s, which was taught to me by a member of Congress, you know, cost, corruption, and chaos, that’s Iran war. The Iran War is the perfect example of the three things. Our costs have gone up dramatically, obviously because of gas and fertilizer for my farmers, which is nuts right now. By the way, the fertilizer issue is gonna come home to roost really soon, okay? So that that corruption, that cost is really that’s the Iran War. The chaos, okay.
John Sipher (32:34.241)
In in these as you talk to people?
Fred Wellman (33:01.131)
Just launching a war and then, we’ve won, we’ve lost, we’ve won, we’ve lost, we’ve won, we lost. That chaos price is going up and down. We’ve got it the corruption announcing, we’ve won, we have negotiations the night before the market opens, and then trading on that. Somebody early we’ve forgotten already. I had a guest on my show for my podcast talking about how somebody in the world was able to move 180 million dollars in oil futures 15 minutes before Donald Trump’s announcement, like the third time. Okay.
Who did that? You know, right? You know, somebody knew, right? And we haven’t investigated, right, was making money. So, and who who why are we not investigating? So I in in this weird world, a foreign policy issue, the war in Iran is very directly affecting average Americans every day. The latest this week, the beef import thing. My God, cost, chaos, corruption. First of all, we’re the third largest beef producing state in the country, believe it or
John Sipher (33:34.319)
Well didn’t his o his own scheduler made money off of it.
Fred Wellman (33:58.486)
I mean Casey barbecue and Sam’s barbecue come from somewhere. Okay. There’s a reason we’re a beef-focused barbecue c estate, right? It’s beef. We produced the third largest number, we had the large third largest beef herd in America. We just undermine that. It is, it is it this is the time of year when our our farmers sell their cat. It’s called the cabbie. That’s why the state fairs are in the fall, you guys. Because they bring their those kids, the four-age kids, bringing their cows. That’s because this is when we sell them, right?
That’s where those cows are going. You know, it’s a little hard to take sometimes. A beautiful cow is going to go get a hamburger, but it is. We just dramatically screwed them. Bringing in beef that, by the way, we don’t know where it’s coming from, and it’s probably tainted. This there’s a very good chance it’s beef that the Chinese said, no, we’re not taking it because it’s poisoned. It could be horses for all we know. And so, again, a a an international affairs issue, which is lowering a tariff to bring in beef, which Donald Trump’s in his small mind thinks will lower prices and suddenly save them in the midterms.
thank God my beef is lower, my ground beef, the one item on my list, has not done nothing but undermine yet again his own constituency, which is rural Americans who are struggling. And so again and again, we’re in a weird world in a midterm election where actual foreign policy issues are tying directly to the kitchen table in in every human way.
John Sipher (35:11.523)
And they are doing it right now, but th the things that are happening now too are gonna affect us for decades to come. And w you know, our leadership in the world benefited us. Our politicians were bad at explaining to us, I think Democrats and Republicans, of why we did what we did in the world and why leadership mattered. And we’re giving it over to the Chinese. We’re getting rid of our allies. These things are gonna impact us and impact our economy. And you know, we’re not gonna get our way in the world for for
Fred Wellman (35:16.417)
Generations and yeah.
Fred Wellman (35:36.406)
Or even scarier, as a national security professional, like like you and I are national security professionals. I’m a soldier. You and I know a general is not made overnight. You don’t hire generals, you make generals. And it takes 25 to 35 years to make a general. So when Pete Heggs stands at the West Point graduation next to the number one cadet who happened to be a black man, and says, no more DEI, no more minor, you know.
And people laugh. If you remember, people laugh like, does he know the number one cadet’s black? Yes. Yes, he did. And that’s why he did it. Because he wants that young man to feel uncomfortable. He wants that young man to make the decision at the five-year mark where I need to keep that kid in. Because that kid, the number one cadet at West Point, is gonna have a lot of job offers at the five-year mark. He’s gonna have corporate, he’s gonna have VCs, he’s gonna have banks, he’s gonna have all kinds of companies calling him to give him a job. And we desperately need as a nation.
That young man to stay in the army for 20 to 30 years and someday become a three or four-star general, just like one of my classmates did. But when you force him out, when you fire the women who are generals, when you pass over the black men and women who are generals, the message is sent, and this is gonna echo through the United States military for a generation to two generations. And if we don’t get control of that, this is not a small thing that Pete Hagsath is doing.
By bringing in these people, he is sending a message throughout the ranks that you’re not welcome. And when we create a white nationalist, Christian nationalist army, we are in very deep trouble. And it ain’t today, it’s for a very long time. And that should scare people in ways that I can’t even comprehend. And it is terrifying to think about the long-term impact of especially Pete Hexeth.
John Sipher (37:22.927)
I think that’s well said. the mean spiritedness just never it just surprises me over and over. So let me you’ve been really, really generous with your time. I’ll get you out of here. One sort of big question. Suppose you’re elected and Democrats have the majority, what two or three two or three things do you really want to push and accomplish rather than just talk about? Or conversely, suppose the Republicans control Congress and none of your leg legislative agenda is going anywhere, what would constitute a successful first term? Like what
Fred Wellman (37:25.965)
Yeah. Cruelty, bigotry, hate.
Fred Wellman (37:33.517)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Fred Wellman (37:40.042)
I love this question.
Fred Wellman (37:48.11)
I love that. So question number one if we get the majority, when we get the majority, when I’m elected, I call myself a day one Democrat. in other words, we have got to go to Washington, DC and get things done quickly for the American people. A lot of people, they’re not just frustrated with Trump and the Republicans, they’re frustrated with government. They’re frustrated with both parties right now. We have to acknowledge that part of the problem is we as Democrats do have a nasty habit of having incredibly big, great ideas. Huge, huge, like world-changing ideas, and then don’t get them done. Or what takes a decade.
And the one thing I’ve learned over the years is if we don’t go to Washington, DC, when we’ve given power, we must use it. One of my biggest frustrations has always been, and if I was going to criticize Mr. Biden, was he was always kind of afraid to swing his power. Whereas we don’t see that in Republican. Donald Trump does not care. He will use whatever power he’s got, and hence everything we’ve just talked about in the last half hour. We need to have that courage as Democrats when we have the majority to use the power. So on day one, we immediately pass the stock trading ban on all forms of trade, not just
Company stocks. I’m talking private equity like my opponent uses and other. We should not have people in office getting rich off of the things that they oversee in any way, shape, or form. You should immediately pass the Crypto Act, which bans all use and spent use of crypto assets by members of Congress and the federal government. Immediately ban the predict act, pass the predict act, which Nikki Basinski put out, which actually bans use by federal officials of prediction markets. Right now we know at least eight wallets on polymarket have been making millions of dollars off the Iran war.
Okay, that’s chilling. Okay. How do we have faith in our government when the very people we’re supposed to trust with the best decisions are doing with their own financial interest in mind? So that was a day one. We also need to turn back the tariffs. Congress must assert their authority from the Constitution of the United States over tariffs immediately. We need to stop the trade wars that are completely unnecessary and causing chaos and a cost for everyone, alienating our allies and friends. That has to happen on day one. We have to turn back the ACA subsidies back on.
We have to, you know, people talk to me a lot about, well, Fred, we need Medicare for all. Fred, we need universal option. Fred, we need you yes, those are all I don’t know what the right answer is, but here’s what I know. When I was a soldier in combat, if one of my men was injured, I didn’t look down at him on the ground and say, hey, good news, once you get to Landstool, it’s gonna be okay. Right? You didn’t as they’re bleeding out, you don’t say, look, it’s gonna take a minute to get you fixed, but don’t worry, it’s gonna be better. No, you bind the wounds.
John Sipher (40:06.703)
Yeah.
Fred Wellman (40:14.784)
So when that when people come back and say, Fred, that’s just a band-aid. Yeah, no shit. Because when you’re bleeding, you put a band-aid on it. You know, you know, and right now, in my district alone, at least 21 to 25,000 people are estimated to have lost their healthcare since the big billionaire bill passed. They’re bleeding out. I mean, if they if one of my constituents gets cancer right now, one of those people, they will die. This is a real world issue. And so if we don’t act immediately to band aid those, put a tourniquet on the wounds, which means turn the AC softheads back.
lower the age for Medicare and Medicaid access. Those kind of things add dental, mental, and why is teeth, eyes, and mental health considered separate from the body and not covered by Medicare? I mean it makes no sense. So again and again we have to go very quickly and make difference. So that’s the big thing. And then on the abar on the obverse of course the reverse of that if we don’t have the power, there’s a lot of power in being a member of Congress in the in the ability to use your bully pull but to get things done. Your ability to get things done. I’ve told now look the fact is
Even if I win this race, I’m gonna have two Republican senators. I’m gonna have an entire rest of my maybe if we’re lucky, I’ll we’ll keep Emmanuel Cleaver and Wesley Bell, and that’ll give us three out of seven three three versus seven in Missouri as far as our our delegates delegation. Okay, well I’m gonna have to I told I told a town hall the other day, I was I’m gonna have to make you mad when I’m elected. I’m gonna have to take calls from Josh Hawley. You know, because you know what? He’s our senator, and I need his help to get things done for you. And I’m being elected by 759,000 people to represent them. Not
Not a hundred thousand Democrats, not three hundred thousand Republicans. I’m being elected by everyone to represent all of them. And that means I’m gonna have to work with our opponents in in Congress to get things done. So I think either way, but you can still use the power. You can still use the power. I can still knock on doors. I can still knock on the EPA commissioner’s door. Right now in Franklin County, in my rur one of my rural counties, they’ve got at least two landfills, which were illegal. No one will claim and they’re leaching they’re leaching
Forever chemicals into the Merrimack River, which then goes to the Mississippi River. Everyone’s doing the whole, it’s not my fault thing. I don’t care whose fault it is. I just need to get the money to get them cleaned up before we poison American people and p cause cancer in children. So that’s the power of that job. So, you know, somebody says something, John, you’ll appreciate. very first interview I did as a candidate and political reporter here said, you know, you’ve been a lieutenant curl in the army, you’re a CEO of a company, you’re the exec director of the Lincoln Project, you’ve had some pretty powerful executive jobs.
Fred Wellman (42:40.353)
When you go to Washington, you’re gonna be a freshman, possibly in the minority of four hundred and thirty-five people, right? Four hundred and thirty-four. And I and he goes, So how how are you gonna I how are you gonna deal with that? I said, Well, look, I was also in the army as just a c lieutenant. You know, I was just I’ve been a staffer in a lot of places. But I think you got the wrong ratio. The ratio that I think about every day, and when I wake up, is this I’ll be one of 759,000.
That was sent to Washington DC to represent all of those people in Missouri. And that’s the ratio that I think about every day when I’m running for Congress is I’m the one guy representing all those people in that job. And therefore I have to find ways to help them. And so I’m never gonna lament that I’m only one to four and thirty-five. I’m always gonna be driven by the fact that I’m one of seven or fifty thousand. That’s the ratio I care about. So I will find ways to do my very best for the people who elect me, even if they didn’t give me money, even if they didn’t represent, you know.
vote for me because that’s the job represent. So that’s what keeps me up at night.
John Sipher (43:40.633)
Good for you, Anna. And the steady state endorses you. They endorse the the values, the experience you’ve had, the seriousness with which you take the job. And so this country needs more people like you and more people willing to t take the leap. And so thank you for doing that. And thank you for talking to us today. And really appreciate it. Thanks, Fred. Good luck. We’re behind ya. I don’t know. I don’t know how much that helps, but we’re behind ya.
Fred Wellman (43:43.511)
Thank you.
Fred Wellman (43:55.136)
Thanks.
Fred Wellman (43:59.597)
It’s an honor. Thanks, brother. Thank you so much. It means the world to
Nah, it it matters. Again, this can, you know, without letting you go, it it that that that does matter. It i it is a tough job. There are days when you’re like, okay, you’re getting pummeled by negative stuff. The Oppo. I have had a rough life and they they’re using that against me all they can. I get it. they’ve been attacking me for a long time, you know. But I do I get I brush myself off. Remember that I do have good people behind me. They have faith that I can do the right thing. And I owe them you know, look, we’ve we’ve raised about one point three million dollars, I think. I don’t really keep track very well for it, unfortunately, but
Every one of those dollars is an investment in me and those people expect me to dust myself off every day and get back to work. And so yes, any kind of support matters and I appreciate it. And by the way, I’ll be remiss. I’ll get fired from my job if I don’t say wellman for mo dot com. If you want to learn more, yeah, wellman for F O R O dot com. I would love forever for any support you can your folks can give. or either you can just volunteer, we’d love to have the help. We’re we’re building a a movement that can really change the world.
John Sipher (44:44.739)
Yes, please, thank you.
Fred Wellman (44:59.606)
Thanks, John.