The MAGA Crack-Up: David Corn on Iran, the FBI, and a Democracy Under Siege

Conspiracy Narratives, Media Challenges, and the Long Shadow of Russian Influence

Former CIA officer John Sipher sits down with David Corn, Washington bureau chief for Mother Jones and one of the nation’s most respected political journalists. They dive deep into the explosive schisms within MAGA world triggered by the Iran war, from Tucker Carlson accusing Trump of being the anti‑Christ to escalating feuds between figures like Megyn Kelly and Mark Levin. Corn explains why the FBI under Kash Patel has been gutted of counterterrorism expertise, how a reportedly Kremlin‑connected propagandist gave Patel $25,000, and why career national security officials are now terrified to speak with reporters. The conversation also covers RFK Jr.’s dangerous tenure at HHS, Tulsi Gabbard’s politicization of intelligence, and the media’s struggle to cover an administration that lies as a strategy. Corn offers a sobering assessment of American democracy’s fragility—and where he still finds hope.

Author info:

David Corn is the Washington bureau chief for Mother Jones and a longtime national security and political journalist. He has covered presidents, scandals, and the rise of the modern right for more than three decades. He is the author of several books, including Russian Roulette (with Michael Isikoff) and the forthcoming How Russia Won. His newsletter, R‑Land, is available at davidcorn.com. You can find him on Blue Sky at @davidcorn and on Signal at DavidCorn99.

Transcript – assisted by AI

John Sipher (00:36.186):
Today’s guest is David Corn. David is one of the country’s best-known political journalists and a longtime Washington reporter who has covered presidents, scandals, national security, and the rise of the modern right for decades. He’s now the Washington bureau chief for *Mother Jones*, and his reporting is consistently focused on power, corruption, disinformation, and the health of American democracy. So David, welcome to the podcast.

David Corn (00:59.342):
Good to be with you, John.

John Sipher (01:00.748):
Yeah, it’s good to see you. God, it’s a crazy time and there’s almost too much to talk about. Let me start with some of the stuff you’ve written about lately. You’ve been writing about the schisms in MAGA land for a while. So what has been the impact of the Iran war on these various MAGA influencers? Because I see various odd conspiracies being spread by folks like Nick Fuentes, Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson, Mark Levin, Laura Loomer, Megyn Kelly, Joe Kent—all this kind of stuff. A lot of them seem to have changed or are reacting in different ways. What do you see happening based on what’s happening in Iran?

David Corn (01:38.686):
You do not have the time to get a full explanation of what’s going on in MAGA land on this. Movements often end up with circular firing squads—we’ve seen that on the right and the left. This has turned into a Möbius strip of a firing squad, with incoming and outgoing attacks from all directions in Trump land.

You see people like Mark Levin, very pro–Iran war and pro-Israel, getting into a fight with Megyn Kelly, who supported Trump but is now opposed to the war. It’s gotten extremely vicious. Tucker Carlson has kind of led the way, and we saw this even before the Iran war. There was already a split between “America First” isolationists and pro-Israel hawks within MAGA.

Now the Iran war has blown that divide wide open. Tucker has even broken with Trump, suggesting extreme conspiracy theories, while also making arguments that resonate across political lines. At the same time, figures like Laura Loomer are attacking Tucker for criticizing Trump. Others—Roger Stone, Steve Bannon—are feuding as well.

I wrote about this in my newsletter, but it would take thousands of words to map it fully. It’s real, it’s not going away, and I think it’s bad news for Trump and Republicans. It may not immediately impact elections, but it shows fractures that will have consequences moving forward.

John Sipher (06:37.614):
Is Trump weighing in on either side? Or is he ignoring it?

David Corn (06:43.896):
I think he’s a little busy at the moment. He hasn’t really taken on Tucker yet, which is significant given their relationship. He may address it later, but for now he’s focused elsewhere. Still, this isn’t something that will be patched up easily—it’s likely to worsen, especially if political pressures increase.

John Sipher (08:17.73):
That leads to a bigger question looking toward 2028: is MAGA more than Donald Trump? It doesn’t seem like a consistent ideology.

David Corn (08:38.26):
That’s exactly the question—and part of this fight is about defining MAGA. It’s largely a personality-driven movement. Historically, we’ve seen similar movements centered around figures rather than ideology.

Polling suggests that while “America First” implies isolationism, many MAGA Republicans still support the war. That shows a divide between ideological “America Firsters” and those who simply follow Trump’s lead. MAGA remains, in many ways, a political cult of personality.

As Trump moves in different directions, some supporters will peel away. That’s what we’re seeing now.

John Sipher (10:43.416):
That makes it harder for someone like JD Vance to inherit the movement.

David Corn (11:02.904):
Exactly. It was always going to be difficult, and now even more so because the movement itself is fragmenting. There’s no clear ideological core to inherit.

John Sipher (13:19.502):
You’ve written about Kash Patel—what should we know about his leadership of the FBI?

David Corn (13:30.242):
Morale is reportedly very low. Agents are being reassigned away from their expertise, and key units are being weakened. There’s also a chilling effect—agents may avoid pursuing cases tied to political figures out of fear of repercussions.

Additionally, Patel’s past connections—including payments from a filmmaker linked to Kremlin-aligned messaging—raise serious concerns. This hasn’t received as much attention as it should.

John Sipher (23:03.31):
Are people more willing to leak information under these conditions?

David Corn (23:16.652):
Actually, no. It’s gotten harder. People are more fearful due to subpoenas and retaliation. Even former officials are reluctant to speak, which is unusual compared to previous years.

John Sipher (24:51.874):
What about RFK Jr.?

David Corn (25:18.052):
He has consistently made claims that don’t hold up under scrutiny. During confirmation hearings, he made assurances he hasn’t kept. His positions on public health and conspiracy theories have had significant consequences.

John Sipher (29:39.758):
What’s your take on the media overall?

David Corn (30:09.07):
There’s been strong reporting, but also structural challenges—fewer reporters, too many stories, and difficulty keeping up with the volume of events. There’s also a tendency toward neutral language that can obscure the severity of certain actions.

The “firehose” of information makes it hard to contextualize events, and the traditional model of balancing “both sides” struggles when dealing with misinformation.

John Sipher (35:56.706):
And Tulsi Gabbard?

David Corn (36:19.774):
She has taken positions that align with various controversial narratives and lacks experience in intelligence leadership. Her actions, particularly regarding declassification and interpretation of intelligence, have raised serious concerns about politicization.

John Sipher (45:21.858):
Before we go, what are you working on?

David Corn (45:32.836):
People can find me on Blue Sky or X, and my newsletter is at davidkorn.com. I’m finishing a book titled *How Russia Won*, about the messaging battle over election interference and its aftermath. I’m also continuing to report on the internal conflicts within MAGA.

John Sipher (46:42.166):
You’ve been doing this a long time—you’re a great reporter. I encourage people to follow your work. And for the audience, if you like what you’re hearing, please subscribe to *The Steady State Sentinel*, follow our content, and leave a five-star review. Stay informed, stay engaged, and join us next week.

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