“No Rules of Engagement”

Lieutenant General (ret.) Ben Hodges speaks with host John Sipher, warning against improper use of the U.S. military, its impact on U.S. defense and our allies’ growing distrust. Professional military institutions depend on the foundational pillars of constitutional loyalty, clear strategic objectives, honest internal accountability, strong alliances and the public trust. Without these foundations, readiness and national unity are at risk

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Summary (AI generated from the transcript, edited for clarity)

1. Oath to the Constitution and Military Professionalism

Hodges emphasizes that from his earliest days at West Point (starting in 1976), the oath to the Constitution—not to a party or president—was central to military identity. The lessons of Vietnam, particularly My Lai, shaped a generation of officers to understand their duty to refuse unlawful orders.

Reaffirming the oath throughout one’s career reinforces a culture of constitutional loyalty and apolitical service.

2. Rebuilding the Post-Vietnam Army

Hodges argues that culture change—not equipment—rebuilt the Army’s effectiveness and revitalized the Army

3. Goldwater-Nichols and Joint Operations

The Goldwater-Nichols Act forced the services to operate jointly, strengthening inter-service coordination and clarifying roles in national defense

4. Speaking Out After Retirement

Hodges explains why he speaks publicly: His oath did not expire at retirement. senior senior leaders have a responsibility to defend constitutional norms, especially when those in uniform cannot speak freely and the need to build the public trust that is essential to an all-volunteer force. He expresses concern about rhetoric or policies that undermine rules of engagement or constitutional principles.

5. The Importance of Allies

The U.S. relies heavily on allies—not just for diplomacy but for operational capacity and intelligence. U.S. forces in Europe (fewer than 100,000 troops) provide critical strategic platforms for global power projection. Trust built over decades enables access to bases and intelligence-sharing—this cannot be taken for granted. Hodges warns that allies may hesitate to cooperate if they perceive reckless or unlawful U.S. conduct.

6. Europe’s Security Posture

Hodges is cautiously optimistic about Europe stepping up its defense responsibilities. Countries like Finland and the Baltic states understand the Russian threat clearly. Germany has made major changes, including allowing debt-financed defense expansion. However, Russian political influence and internal divisions remain challenges.

7. Ukraine and Learning from Partners

Hodges stresses the importance of being a learning organization—adapting training and doctrine based on real-world lessons. The U.S. began training Ukrainian forces in 2015 at Yavoriv. American forces learned from Ukrainian battlefield experience (artillery, drones, electronic warfare).

8. Civil-Military Relations and Political Pressure

Civilian control of the military is essential—but so is honest, private pushback from senior military leaders. Hodges warns that punishing leaders for raising concerns creates a climate where officers fear questioning potentially unlawful or reckless directives. Retirees and Congress play important roles in accountability.

9. Advice to Young Officers

Don’t get consumed by national-level politics. Military service remains honorable, rewarding, and necessary. Focus on accomplishing the mission and taking care of your people.

10. Final Reflection: Strategy and Governance

Hodges concludes with a central concern:

• The military must remain a rules-based, constitutionally loyal institution.

• Civilian leaders must clearly define strategic objectives.

• Without clear goals, as seen in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan, policy and military effort drift.

• He argues the U.S. currently lacks a clearly defined strategic objective regarding Ukraine.

Founded in 2016, The Steady State is a nonprofit 501(c)(4) organization of more than 360 former senior national security professionals. Our membership includes former officials from the CIA, FBI, Department of State, Department of Defense, and Department of Homeland Security. Drawing on deep expertise across national security disciplines, including intelligence, diplomacy, military affairs, and law, we advocate for constitutional democracy, the rule of law, and the preservation of America’s national security institutions.